Limiting new members emails

# Marcos Caceres (20 days ago)

Platform WG Chair, In the interest of reducing email noise, I'd like to request that the Chairs stop sending new member announcements to the list. Although it's lovely that people introduce themselves, etc. what is more valuable is that new members get up to speed on how to best contribute (on Github! ❤️).

Kind

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# Marcos Caceres (20 days ago)

On May 1, 2017 at 4:49:30 PM, Michiel Bijl (michiel@moiety.me) wrote:

Are you saying new members should introduce themselves with GitHub issues ;)?

har har :) But in a in a way, yes - absolutely... via helpful pull requests, filing bugs, doing reviews, etc.

# Léonie Watson (19 days ago)

On 01/05/2017 06:50, Marcos Caceres wrote:

Hi Web Platform WG Chair, In the interest of reducing email noise, I'd like to request that the Chairs stop sending new member announcements to the list. Although it's lovely that people introduce themselves, etc. what is more valuable is that new members get up to speed on how to best contribute (on Github! ❤️).

Thanks Marcos.

Helping new members actively contribute is definitely valuable. We send each new member pointers to useful information like our work mode, pub status (which includes links to all Github repos), and encourage them to contribute - or ask questions if they're not sure where to start.

We also welcome them to the official WG list because, as you note, it's a lovely thing to do. It also helps existing WebPlat members discover people with knowledge that is useful to the work being done - and enabling them to reach out to new members to encourage them to contribute to a particular spec or activity.

So although it creates a few additional emails, it feels like something worth doing in the interests of making people feel welcome and helping them find ways to actively contribute on Github.

Léonie

@LeonieWatson tink.uk Carpe diem

# marcos at marcosc.com (19 days ago)

On 1 May 2017, at 10:03 pm, Léonie Watson tink@tink.uk wrote:

On 01/05/2017 06:50, Marcos Caceres wrote: Hi Web Platform WG Chair, In the interest of reducing email noise, I'd like to request that the Chairs stop sending new member announcements to the list. Although it's lovely that people introduce themselves, etc. what is more valuable is that new members get up to speed on how to best contribute (on Github! ❤️).

Thanks Marcos.

Helping new members actively contribute is definitely valuable. We send each new member pointers to useful information like our work mode, pub status (which includes links to all Github repos), and encourage them to contribute - or ask questions if they're not sure where to start.

We also welcome them to the official WG list because, as you note, it's a lovely thing to do. It also helps existing WebPlat members discover people with knowledge that is useful to the work being done - and enabling them to reach out to new members to encourage them to contribute to a particular spec or activity.

I think this might be my 11th year here, and I've never seen this happen. Of course, my experience may not be representative.

The way we collaborate had radically changed since we moved to GitHub, and this list is increasingly becoming irrelevant (in a good way).

I'd rather new folks be paired up with existing participants if they want to get started. I'd be more than happy to get new members started rather than them sending greetings emails.

So although it creates a few additional emails, it feels like something worth doing in the interests of making people feel welcome and helping them find ways to actively contribute on Github.

I personally find it unhelpful to both the group and the new members (because in reality new members rarely contribute).

We need to find better ways of on-boarding new people than sending these emails.

# Paul Libbrecht (19 days ago)

as a complete “passive observer” of webPlat. This together with publications’ announces and sometimes questions, and my small little world of GitHub issues… That’s far from making me feel overwhelmed and I rather appreciate to see the name of new actors! Maybe one should request a more detailed presentation (e.g. what specialisation) and a more detailed expectations description… But sure I cannot require that!

Paul

# Domenic Denicola (19 days ago)

I can understand enjoying such emails, especially for people who don't already have overflowing inboxes already.

But I wonder, could we have a separate mailing list, or perhaps a catch-all webapps GitHub repository, for technical discussions? Then those of us who feel overwhelmed could send public-webapps to the trash bin in our email clients (since we're not allowed to unsubscribe), and subscribe to the separate list for technical discussions.

Looking over the archives, I see the following technical discussion threads in 2017, omitting bugspam:

  • "Re: FPWD of Pointer Lock 2.0" (arguably should have been a separate thread)
  • "Seeking clarity over user-experience"
  • "Generalization of Service Worker external events"
  • "[service-workers] A pattern for preventing worker termination indefinitely"
  • "[service-workers] Aggressive worker fetching in Chrome"
  • Various meeting minutes

I'd love if there were some list for only such threads, so that I could subscribe to them without getting the administrative emails.

# Léonie Watson (16 days ago)

On 01/05/2017 13:27, marcos@marcosc.com wrote: > >

On 1 May 2017, at 10:03 pm, Léonie Watson tink@tink.uk wrote:

We also welcome them to the official WG list because, as you note, it's a lovely thing to do. It also helps existing WebPlat members discover people with knowledge that is useful to the work being done - and enabling them to reach out to new members to encourage them to contribute to a particular spec or activity.

I think this might be my 11th year here, and I've never seen this happen. Of course, my experience may not be representative.

It isn't common, but it does happen. A recent example is Anne Colum, who responded to our welcome email and who is now actively helping with HTML.

The way we collaborate had radically changed since we moved to GitHub, and this list is increasingly becoming irrelevant (in a good way).

I'd rather new folks be paired up with existing participants if they want to get started. I'd be more than happy to get new members started rather than them sending greetings emails.

>

So although it creates a few additional emails, it feels like something worth doing in the interests of making people feel welcome and helping them find ways to actively contribute on Github.

I personally find it unhelpful to both the group and the new members (because in reality new members rarely contribute).

We need to find better ways of on-boarding new people than sending

these emails.

Which probably means we could do better at making them feel welcome and/or helping them get started. The idea of introducing them to another active participant is worth exploring - how do you think it might work in practice?

Léonie.

# Patrick H. Lauke (16 days ago)

On 04/05/2017 10:10, Léonie Watson wrote:

On 01/05/2017 13:27, marcos@marcosc.com wrote: [...]

We need to find better ways of on-boarding new people than sending these emails.

Which probably means we could do better at making them feel welcome and/or helping them get started. The idea of introducing them to another active participant is worth exploring - how do you think it might work in practice?

(Biting my tongue not to comment on the irony that this thread about limiting the amount of emails sent to this list probably accounts for the largest number of emails I received from this list in a while) I'll just add that I don't mind the occasional "such and such joined" message on various W3C lists. Easily ignorable, and I often find it quite interesting to know/see who joined and to perhaps reach out to them (off-list, sure) to offer help/advice to get started.

The "there's no need to introduce them, let their contributions be their introduction" argument does smack a tad of meritocracy.

With that, I'll go back in lurk mode so as not to anger the message-counters.

P

# Katie Haritos-Shea (16 days ago)

+1 to Patrick

Katie Haritos-Shea 703

# Dan Brickley (16 days ago)

+1, maybe use a consistent subject line so that those who don't want intros can filter them out?

Generally I've very pro- having discussions primarily be in Github, but a few friendly welcome messages make a nice enough change from emails requiring actual work.

# Anne-Gaelle Colom (16 days ago)

Dear All,

I would like to support Léonie's point. Joining a new team/group can be quite daunting and the best way for new members to contribute is to make them feel welcome, give them all the information they need to do so, and make it clear that their contributions are valued. The warm welcome message that I received from Léonie when I joined recently did exactly that. It put me enough at ease that I felt able to contribute straight away rather than go into observation mode first.

I also echo Patrick's point that it is good to hear about new members, their background and their expertise. To reduce noise, we could recommend that responses to introductions should go to the member only rather than being copied onto the mailing list as well, but I feel that losing the welcome and introduction emails altogether would be detrimental.

Kind regards,

Anne

On Thu, May 4, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Patrick H. Lauke redux@splintered.co.uk

wrote:

# Léonie Watson (16 days ago)

Thanks everyone. For now we'll continue sending the welcome emails, and trust that people can filter based on the "New member" or "New members" keywords if they wish. We'll encourage new participants to introduce themselves and their interests/skills, and active participants to reach out and offer a practical helping hand to get newcomers up and running.

Léonie

# Chaals is Charles McCathie Nevile (15 days ago)

In the interests of wrapping this up before it becomes the biggest thread of all…

It seems that people generally prefer to have the niceness factor of a welcome. Unless there is a significant unanswered outcry, we will continue this, and try to use a specific subject so you can filter if you prefer:

"Welcome to new member" seems unlikely to be part of a subject for anything else...

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