Can the WebKit logo be used for WebKit ports? (like WebKitGTK)

# Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez (16 days ago)

I'm working on having daily runs of WebKitGTK (with minibrowser) at wpt.fyi but then I noticed that the WebKitGTK project doesn't have a logo as such.

So, I wonder...

Would it be OK to use the WebKit logo for the WebKitGTK port? (to show on wpt.fyi at the top of the column for the WebKitGTK test results)

Thanks for the comments

Best regards.

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# Ryosuke Niwa (16 days ago)

I don't know the rules regarding the logo use but it might be a bit misleading to use WebKit logo without any qualification for GTK+ port on wpt.fyi.

I'd imagine people who visiting wpt.fyi may not realize how different GTK+ and Apple's WebKit ports are in terms of set of features being enabled, and which sets of tests pass in each port.

So at minimum, we may want to add some kind of indication that it's GTK+ port; or that it's distinct from Apple's WebKit ports if you were to use WebKit's logo somehow.

  • R. Niwa
# Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez (9 days ago)

On 03/10/2019 00:43, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:

I don't know the rules regarding the logo use but it might be a bit misleading to use WebKit logo without any qualification for GTK+ port on wpt.fyi.

I'd imagine people who visiting wpt.fyi may not realize how different GTK+ and Apple's WebKit ports are in terms of set of features being enabled, and which sets of tests pass in each port.

So at minimum, we may want to add some kind of indication that it's GTK+ port; or that it's distinct from Apple's WebKit ports if you were to use WebKit's logo somehow.

I agree that its important to not confuse users and make clearer that the results are for the WebKitGTK port.

On one hand the name would be WebKitGTK and the platform Linux, and on the other hand it would have on the smaller icon at the left a Tux (the classic Linux penguin).

See this example of how it would look (without logo still):

wpt.fyi/results/?run_id=334360001&run_id=336100010&run_id=322590004&run_id=332480002&run_id=332480003

However, I agree that still can be confusing if we use the WebKit logo as is. So, let's discard doing that.

But, I wonder if it would be OK to use a variation of the WebKit logo with some clearly visible modifications like different colors.

For example: cloud.igalia.com/index.php/s/y4xrKBYBY8t643D (Its the WebKit logo but with the GTK colors)

Would be using this variation of the logo OK?

# Maciej Stachowiak (9 days ago)

On Oct 9, 2019, at 5:43 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez <clopez at igalia.com> wrote:

On 03/10/2019 00:43, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:

I don't know the rules regarding the logo use but it might be a bit misleading to use WebKit logo without any qualification for GTK+ port on wpt.fyi.

I'd imagine people who visiting wpt.fyi may not realize how different GTK+ and Apple's WebKit ports are in terms of set of features being enabled, and which sets of tests pass in each port.

So at minimum, we may want to add some kind of indication that it's GTK+ port; or that it's distinct from Apple's WebKit ports if you were to use WebKit's logo somehow.

I agree that its important to not confuse users and make clearer that the results are for the WebKitGTK port.

On one hand the name would be WebKitGTK and the platform Linux, and on the other hand it would have on the smaller icon at the left a Tux (the classic Linux penguin).

See this example of how it would look (without logo still):

wpt.fyi/results/?run_id=334360001&run_id=336100010&run_id=322590004&run_id=332480002&run_id=332480003

However, I agree that still can be confusing if we use the WebKit logo as is. So, let's discard doing that.

But, I wonder if it would be OK to use a variation of the WebKit logo with some clearly visible modifications like different colors.

For example: cloud.igalia.com/index.php/s/y4xrKBYBY8t643D (Its the WebKit logo but with the GTK colors)

Would be using this variation of the logo OK?

In terms of legalities:

The WebKit logo (as well as the term WebKit) is trademarked by Apple, but there are acceptable use guidelines in the Terms of Use: webkit.org/terms-of-use . I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice, but my interpretation is that it’s OK to use the WebKit logo in association with WebKitGTK. As far as alterations, I think a WebKit logo with a GTK+ logo next to it (or Linux logo, whatever), or badging it in the corner, would be more in line with the guidelines than a recolor. i.e. putting another logo/mark next to the WebKit logo seems more appropriate than directly altering the logo.

# Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez (8 days ago)

On 09/10/2019 21:53, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:

In terms of legalities:

The WebKit logo (as well as the term WebKit) is trademarked by Apple, but there are acceptable use guidelines in the Terms of Use: webkit.org/terms-of-use . I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice, but my interpretation is that it’s OK to use the WebKit logo in association with WebKitGTK. As far as alterations, I think a WebKit logo with a GTK+ logo next to it (or Linux logo, whatever), or badging it in the corner, would be more in line with the guidelines than a recolor. i.e. putting another logo/mark next to the WebKit logo seems more appropriate than directly altering the logo.

So, if I understand right... something like this would be more acceptable? people.igalia.com/clopez/webkit_gtk_corner_logo.png

Personally, i think that is more likely to cause confusion than using a logo with different colors, check:

people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test.png vs people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test2.png

But if that is ok for you, then for my part is also fine... in the end webkitgtk is webkit, right?

And if someone doesn't like this, please let me know, we may try to come with a new logo for webkitgtk (that is not simply changing the colors). I just want to know how to best proceed in this regard.

Regards.

# Ryosuke Niwa (8 days ago)

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 9:03 AM Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez < clopez at igalia.com> wrote:

On 09/10/2019 21:53, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:

In terms of legalities:

The WebKit logo (as well as the term WebKit) is trademarked by Apple, but there are acceptable use guidelines in the Terms of Use: webkit.org/terms-of-use . I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice, but my interpretation is that it’s OK to use the WebKit logo in association with WebKitGTK. As far as alterations, I think a WebKit logo with a GTK+ logo next to it (or Linux logo, whatever), or badging it in the corner, would be more in line with the guidelines than a recolor. i.e. putting another logo/mark next to the WebKit logo seems more appropriate than directly altering the logo.

So, if I understand right... something like this would be more acceptable? people.igalia.com/clopez/webkit_gtk_corner_logo.png

Personally, i think that is more likely to cause confusion than using a logo with different colors, check:

people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test.png vs people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test2.png

But if that is ok for you, then for my part is also fine... in the end webkitgtk is webkit, right?

People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance of port specific bugs & set of features. WebKit's ports are unlike Gecko's & Blink's because while they may have platform specific bugs, each engine is supposed to fully support more or less the same set of features on all platforms equally well, and there is a clear entity which maintains either engine (Mozilla & Google). With WebKit, that's not the case.

If I were you, I'd do something like putting WebKit logo on a side of GTK+ logo's box.

  • R. Niwa
# Maciej Stachowiak (7 days ago)

On Oct 10, 2019, at 9:02 AM, Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez <clopez at igalia.com> wrote:

On 09/10/2019 21:53, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:

In terms of legalities:

The WebKit logo (as well as the term WebKit) is trademarked by Apple, but there are acceptable use guidelines in the Terms of Use: webkit.org/terms-of-use . I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice, but my interpretation is that it’s OK to use the WebKit logo in association with WebKitGTK. As far as alterations, I think a WebKit logo with a GTK+ logo next to it (or Linux logo, whatever), or badging it in the corner, would be more in line with the guidelines than a recolor. i.e. putting another logo/mark next to the WebKit logo seems more appropriate than directly altering the logo.

So, if I understand right... something like this would be more acceptable? people.igalia.com/clopez/webkit_gtk_corner_logo.png

Personally, i think that is more likely to cause confusion than using a logo with different colors, check:

people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test.png vs people.igalia.com/clopez/wpt_fyi_logo_test2.png

I see what you mean. The second version is hard to see at that size.

# Konstantin Tokarev (7 days ago)

10.10.2019, 23:10, "Ryosuke Niwa" <rniwa at webkit.org>:

People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance of port specific bugs & set of features.

However, Safari has its own column in the table, and its logo is very different.

# Ryosuke Niwa (7 days ago)

On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 9:38 AM Konstantin Tokarev <annulen at yandex.ru>

wrote:

10.10.2019, 23:10, "Ryosuke Niwa" <rniwa at webkit.org>:

People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance of port specific bugs & set of features.

However, Safari has its own column in the table, and its logo is very different.

I don't think that addresses my primary concern. It's very important to signal to the rest of the world that a single port of WebKit doesn't represent the entirety of the WebKit project for the purpose of WPT pass rate or any other standards compliance.

We already had a discussion about how how Apple should provide JSC binary on Linux despite of the fact Apple does not maintain any port on Linux: lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2017-December/029805.html

I don't think we want to add more confusion to the situation by different ports of WebKit using the WebKit logo on wpt.fyi or any other place for that matter.

  • R. Niwa
# Maciej Stachowiak (4 days ago)

On Oct 11, 2019, at 9:38 AM, Konstantin Tokarev <annulen at yandex.ru> wrote:

10.10.2019, 23:10, "Ryosuke Niwa" <rniwa at webkit.org>:

People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance of port specific bugs & set of features.

However, Safari has its own column in the table, and its logo is very different.

In the past, people used to think that “WebKit” was a separate browser based on WebKit nightlies. People get confused about this stuff easily. So it’s good to go for maximum clarity.

I think the recolored logo, a WebKit logo with a somewhat bigger Gtk+ logo overlaid, or WebKit with a little banner saying "GTk+” similar to the Edge Dev icon on the current wit.fyi dashboard would be good.

That would minimize risk of confusion, I think.

# Carlos Alberto Lopez Perez (a day ago)

On 10/10/2019 22:08, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:

People often associate the term "WebKit" with Apple's WebKit port in practice. The risk here is really about people not understanding the nuance of port specific bugs & set of features. WebKit's ports are unlike Gecko's & Blink's because while they may have platform specific bugs, each engine is supposed to fully support more or less the same set of features on all platforms equally well, and there is a clear entity which maintains either engine (Mozilla & Google). With WebKit, that's not the case.

If I were you, I'd do something like putting WebKit logo on a side of GTK+ logo's box.

Thanks everybody for the feedback.

So I will try to see if we can create a new logo for WebKitGTK.

I understand this new logo can have some elements from the original WebKit logo, but it has to be clearly visually different. (for example, it would be OK to put the WebKit logo on a side of the GTK logo cube/box, but it will not be OK to just change the colors of the original logo)

Best regards.

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