[css-backgrounds] Please remove the "unless there is a border image" wording

# Boris Zbarsky (2 years ago)

The spec at drafts.csswg.org/css-backgrounds/#the-border-style says:

These properties set the style of the border, unless there is a border image

This is apparently confusing the WebKit and Blink developers (the former sufficiently that they marked "invalid" a bug about maybe actually following the border-image spec).

I suggest simply removing this sentence, especially since it's non-normative but being treated as normative by some implementors.

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# fantasai (2 years ago)

On 11/17/2015 09:56 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:

The spec at drafts.csswg.org/css-backgrounds/#the-border-style says:

These properties set the style of the border, unless there is a border image

This is apparently confusing the WebKit and Blink developers (the former sufficiently that they marked "invalid" a bug about maybe actually following the border-image spec).

I suggest simply removing this sentence, especially since it's non-normative but being treated as normative by some implementors.

Um. The fact that these properties set the style of the border is normative. What's the confusion over, specifically?

~fantasai

# Boris Zbarsky (2 years ago)

On 11/18/15 10:44 AM, fantasai wrote:

On 11/17/2015 09:56 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:

The spec at drafts.csswg.org/css-backgrounds/#the-border-style says:

These properties set the style of the border, unless there is a border image

This is apparently confusing the WebKit and Blink developers (the former sufficiently that they marked "invalid" a bug about maybe actually following the border-image spec).

I suggest simply removing this sentence, especially since it's non-normative but being treated as normative by some implementors.

Um. The fact that these properties set the style of the border is normative. What's the confusion over, specifically?

The "unless there is a border image" part. Which people are using to justify not updating WebKit to the spec change from a while back to have border-style:none mean border-image-width defaults to 0, as far as I can tell. See bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99922

# Gérard Talbot (2 years ago)

Le 2015-11-18 10:44, fantasai a écrit :

On 11/17/2015 09:56 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:

The spec at drafts.csswg.org/css-backgrounds/#the-border-style says:

These properties set the style of the border, unless there is a border image

This is apparently confusing the WebKit and Blink developers (the former sufficiently that they marked "invalid" a bug about maybe actually following the border-image spec).

I suggest simply removing this sentence, especially since it's non-normative but being treated as normative by some implementors.

Um. The fact that these properties set the style of the border is normative. What's the confusion over, specifically?

~fantasai

We also have a test on this code scenario:

test.csswg.org/suites/css-backgrounds-3_dev/nightly-unstable/html4/border-image-slice-003.htm

Gérard

# Adenilson Cavalcanti (2 years ago)

@Boris

Thanks for reporting this, I submitted a fix to Blink (codereview.chromium.org/1457323004) and should upload a patch to WebKit pretty soon.

@Gerard The test is quite authoritative to show that both Blink and WebKit are non compliant.

Adenilson Cavalcanti

# fantasai (2 days ago)

On 11/18/2015 12:46 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:

On 11/18/15 10:44 AM, fantasai wrote:

On 11/17/2015 09:56 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:

The spec at drafts.csswg.org/css-backgrounds/#the-border-style says:

These properties set the style of the border, unless there is a border image

This is apparently confusing the WebKit and Blink developers (the former sufficiently that they marked "invalid" a bug about maybe actually following the border-image spec).

I suggest simply removing this sentence, especially since it's non-normative but being treated as normative by some implementors.

Um. The fact that these properties set the style of the border is normative. What's the confusion over, specifically?

The "unless there is a border image" part. Which people are using to justify not updating WebKit to the spec change from a while back to have border-style:none mean border-image-width defaults to 0, as far as I can tell. See bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99922

Updated the spec to say

These properties set the style in which a box’s borders are drawn

(unless there is a border image drawn in their place).

Let me know if this seems acceptable.

In any case it looks like Webkit and Blink have accepted to fix their bugs. :) Although WebKit's patch seems to have stalled last November...

~fantasai

# Boris Zbarsky (2 days ago)

On 9/21/17 12:09 AM, fantasai wrote:

Updated the spec to say

These properties set the style in which a box’s borders are drawn

(unless there is a border image drawn

in their place).

Let me know if this seems acceptable.

I don't know that this solves the problem of it then sounding like "none" doesn't apply if there is a border-image.

The fact is that "none" doesn't set the style. It controls whether there is a border at all. So the right non-normative summary is:

These properties control whether a border appears, and if it does what style it's drawn in. A border-image will override the style, but not whether a border appears in the first place.

At least I assume this text is meant to be non-normative. It's not actually marked that way, but if it's meant to be normative I'm not sure what it's supposed to really be saying in a normative sense.

In any case it looks like Webkit and Blink have accepted to fix their bugs. :) Although WebKit's patch seems to have stalled last November...

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath.

-Boris

P.S. Not on the list, so please cc me on replies.

# fantasai (a day ago)

On 09/21/2017 12:25 AM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:

On 9/21/17 12:09 AM, fantasai wrote:

Updated the spec to say

These properties set the style in which a box’s borders are drawn

(unless there is a border image drawn in their place).

Let me know if this seems acceptable.

I don't know that this solves the problem of it then sounding like "none" doesn't apply if there is a border-image.

The fact is that "none" doesn't set the style. It controls whether there is a border at all. So the right non-normative summary is:

These properties control whether a border appears, and if it does what style it's drawn in. A border-image will override the style, but not whether a border appears in the first place.

That's much better! I've written it in as

These properties control whether a border appears, and if it does what style it's drawn in (if it is not overridden by a border image).

At least I assume this text is meant to be non-normative. It's not actually marked that way, but if it's meant to be normative I'm not sure what it's supposed to really be saying in a normative sense.

It's meant to provide an overview of what the property does. It is normative, but more fully described in the prose below.

~fantasai

# fantasai (a day ago)

Resending 'cuz I forgot to CC.

On 09/21/2017 12:25 AM, Boris Zbarsky wrote:

On 9/21/17 12:09 AM, fantasai wrote:

Updated the spec to say

These properties set the style in which a box’s borders are drawn

(unless there is a border image drawn in their place).

Let me know if this seems acceptable.

I don't know that this solves the problem of it then sounding like "none" doesn't apply if there is a border-image.

The fact is that "none" doesn't set the style. It controls whether there is a border at all. So the right non-normative

summary is: >

These properties control whether a border appears, and if it does what style it's drawn in. A border-image will override the style, but not whether a border appears in the first place.

That's much better! I've written it in as

These properties control whether a border appears, and if it does what style it's drawn in (if it is not overridden by a border image).

At least I assume this text is meant to be non-normative. It's not actually marked that way, but if it's meant to be

normative I'm not sure what it's supposed to really be saying in a normative sense.

It's meant to provide an overview of what the property does. It is normative, but more fully described in the prose below.

~fantasai

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